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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s the time of the season . . .</title>
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	<description>You take the banana out of the freezer, dip it in the chocolate, and roll it in the nuts.</description>
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		<title>By: Cap'n Whook</title>
		<link>http://knowtea.com/?p=625&#038;cpage=1#comment-3229</link>
		<dc:creator>Cap'n Whook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 01:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knowtea.com/?p=625#comment-3229</guid>
		<description>Well, now, those year-round stores that sell German Christmas goods, handmade by Black Forest elves, are an exception.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, now, those year-round stores that sell German Christmas goods, handmade by Black Forest elves, are an exception.</p>
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		<title>By: Mo</title>
		<link>http://knowtea.com/?p=625&#038;cpage=1#comment-3227</link>
		<dc:creator>Mo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knowtea.com/?p=625#comment-3227</guid>
		<description>Thanks.  And don&#039;t get me started on year-round Christmas stores ... yeeeesh!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks.  And don&#8217;t get me started on year-round Christmas stores &#8230; yeeeesh!</p>
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		<title>By: RevJATB</title>
		<link>http://knowtea.com/?p=625&#038;cpage=1#comment-3217</link>
		<dc:creator>RevJATB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 13:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Absolutely, Morris.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely, Morris.</p>
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		<title>By: Mo</title>
		<link>http://knowtea.com/?p=625&#038;cpage=1#comment-3216</link>
		<dc:creator>Mo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 13:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knowtea.com/?p=625#comment-3216</guid>
		<description>And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how healthy Christian dialogue takes place. To quote Rick Warren:  &quot;We are never persuasive when we&#039;re abrasive.&quot;  Kudos to both of you for gracious, intelligent, non-belligerent discourse. I sense the Spirit of Christ in both of you.  Well done!  Well done indeed!  With your permission, may I link this one on my blog?

Mo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how healthy Christian dialogue takes place. To quote Rick Warren:  &#8220;We are never persuasive when we&#8217;re abrasive.&#8221;  Kudos to both of you for gracious, intelligent, non-belligerent discourse. I sense the Spirit of Christ in both of you.  Well done!  Well done indeed!  With your permission, may I link this one on my blog?</p>
<p>Mo.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://knowtea.com/?p=625&#038;cpage=1#comment-3215</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knowtea.com/?p=625#comment-3215</guid>
		<description>Well- stated, John. I do not subscribe to that principle; my point, as you stated, is that almost everything we do as the Church is not specifically stated in the Word, but for some reason we hold on to them as if God Himself did speak them into existence right after the resurrection. Perhaps in the canonization we did miss the &quot;book of Liturgical Practices&quot; 

Most, if not all, of our theologies, liturgical practices, and life-styles should be questioned and brought before God and checked by the Word to see if it has merit at all before we blindly follow them and they become meaningless symbols that conform to this world. Every Christmas season I struggle with the whole meaning and ask myself should we even go through with the tradition as it somehow becomes about greed and parties. Inevitably that brings up the whole &quot;keep Christ in Christmas&quot; issue and I have to wonder if Christ was ever there...in Christmas the holiday, that is. 

As Christ-followers the whole point is to live life as a Christ-honoring life, not pick out a specific day or days. I do not believe there is anything wrong with Christmas, but we tend to focus on the day, not the reason for the day, we are human. The Israelites did the same thing with the ark, it became the object of their affection and a good-luck charm to take into battle instead of what it was intended for...the place where the presence of God rested. And so we do with everything else... Advent, Christmas, Easter, church practices, offerings, church buildings, etc.

I will celebrate Christmas this year and thank God that He chose to set aside His place and come as man to live a life on this Earth fully intending to follow the Father&#039;s will and die in order to ransom me from certain death, only to be buried and rise again. I will tell my family the rest of the story from the manger to the open tomb, and be reminded that it&#039;s not so important that we honor the birth of Jesus (while we give presents to one another) as we honor his name...the name we take upon believing in Him, and we live the Life, so we do not take on His name in vain</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well- stated, John. I do not subscribe to that principle; my point, as you stated, is that almost everything we do as the Church is not specifically stated in the Word, but for some reason we hold on to them as if God Himself did speak them into existence right after the resurrection. Perhaps in the canonization we did miss the &#8220;book of Liturgical Practices&#8221; </p>
<p>Most, if not all, of our theologies, liturgical practices, and life-styles should be questioned and brought before God and checked by the Word to see if it has merit at all before we blindly follow them and they become meaningless symbols that conform to this world. Every Christmas season I struggle with the whole meaning and ask myself should we even go through with the tradition as it somehow becomes about greed and parties. Inevitably that brings up the whole &#8220;keep Christ in Christmas&#8221; issue and I have to wonder if Christ was ever there&#8230;in Christmas the holiday, that is. </p>
<p>As Christ-followers the whole point is to live life as a Christ-honoring life, not pick out a specific day or days. I do not believe there is anything wrong with Christmas, but we tend to focus on the day, not the reason for the day, we are human. The Israelites did the same thing with the ark, it became the object of their affection and a good-luck charm to take into battle instead of what it was intended for&#8230;the place where the presence of God rested. And so we do with everything else&#8230; Advent, Christmas, Easter, church practices, offerings, church buildings, etc.</p>
<p>I will celebrate Christmas this year and thank God that He chose to set aside His place and come as man to live a life on this Earth fully intending to follow the Father&#8217;s will and die in order to ransom me from certain death, only to be buried and rise again. I will tell my family the rest of the story from the manger to the open tomb, and be reminded that it&#8217;s not so important that we honor the birth of Jesus (while we give presents to one another) as we honor his name&#8230;the name we take upon believing in Him, and we live the Life, so we do not take on His name in vain</p>
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		<title>By: RevJATB</title>
		<link>http://knowtea.com/?p=625&#038;cpage=1#comment-3214</link>
		<dc:creator>RevJATB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 00:48:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knowtea.com/?p=625#comment-3214</guid>
		<description>Hi Scott, and welcome.

By the way you&#039;ve asked your question, I assume that you may subscribe to the Puritan understanding of the &quot;regulative principle of worship,&quot; which is sometimes summarized as &quot;whatever is not commanded is forbidden.&quot;  I don&#039;t know if you do or not, but that is my assumption.  I also know that my summary of that view is not a complete one, but it may help to clue in other readers who are not familiar with that position.

A comments section like this doesn&#039;t permit me to go into the reasons why I disagree with that particular version of the regulative principle.  Suffice it to say that I believe we formulate a theology of worship the way we formulate a theology of anything else (the atonement, just war theory, what have you):  we take everything the Bible has to say on the subject and bring it together systematically.

There are many things we regularly do in worship that are not expressly commanded in Scripture, such as a weekly collection and a weekly sermon.  Yes, the Bible gives us the example of Paul preaching on the Lord&#039;s Day (in the book of Acts) and the Bible does command us to &quot;preach the word,&quot; but it does not command us to have a sermon every Sunday. 

Instead, I believe we formulate a theology of worship based on biblical commands, biblical principles and biblical examples.  In the Old Testament, God gave his people the annual feasts (Passover, Feast of Tabernacles, Feast of Weeks, etc.).  In so doing, he established the principle that his people were to order their times and seasons not simply according to the changing of the seasons or the harvests, but according to his mighty acts in history, his acts of salvation on their behalf.

The Christian Year is simply an outgrowth of that principle:  the earliest Christians took Passover (in Greek, Pascha) and interpreted it in light of Christ&#039;s Resurrection.  The day we call Easter is still called Pascha (Passover) by the Greeks, Pasqua by the Italians, etc.

I believe in celebrating the Church Year because our faith is not a timeless mythology:  it is firmly rooted in history.  Therefore, I believe it is helpful and wise to revisit the major events of Redemptive History at the same time each year for the same reason we celebrate loved ones&#039; birthdays, our wedding anniversaries, and even Independence Day:  because something significant happened on those dates.

That is not to say that we know what day Jesus was born:  of course we don&#039;t.  But the practice of celebrating his birth on the same day every year helps to cement the event in our minds as a real, historical event.

As I have mentioned in other posts (you can check the archives for earlier posts on the Christian Year), I have great respect for those who, because of their Puritan/Reformed convictions, do not celebrate the Church Year in any form or fashion:  no Christmas, no Easter, etc.   Just the Lord&#039;s Day.  I don&#039;t agree with them, but I respect them.

What I have no respect for, and little patience for, are those people who decide to celebrate the feasts of the Christian Calendar but who then take their cues as to how and when to celebrate from retailers, florists, and greeting card companies rather than from centuries of Christian witness and experience.  In other words, what&#039;s the point, as a Christian, in celebrating Christmas if you&#039;re just going to do what the retailers dictate?  It would seem better to me to omit Christmas altogether than to celebrate it in such a way that completely ignores the way the church has celebrated Christmas for centuries.

Finally (and I said I wasn&#039;t going to get into this, didn&#039;t I?  Hehehe), it is ironic to me that so many churches will eschew the Church Year (except for Christmas and Easter as stand-alone days, not in their logical contexts as part of the larger story), but they WILL observe civil holidays such as Independence Day, Labor Day, Memorial Day, etc., as well as florist-invented &quot;holidays&quot; such as Mother&#039;s Day, Father&#039;s Day, and Grandparent&#039;s Day.  So, &quot;man-made&quot; days honoring Christ are out, but &quot;man-made&quot; days honoring America, baseball, hot dogs, or mom&#039;s apple pie, are in?  Doesn&#039;t make sense to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Scott, and welcome.</p>
<p>By the way you&#8217;ve asked your question, I assume that you may subscribe to the Puritan understanding of the &#8220;regulative principle of worship,&#8221; which is sometimes summarized as &#8220;whatever is not commanded is forbidden.&#8221;  I don&#8217;t know if you do or not, but that is my assumption.  I also know that my summary of that view is not a complete one, but it may help to clue in other readers who are not familiar with that position.</p>
<p>A comments section like this doesn&#8217;t permit me to go into the reasons why I disagree with that particular version of the regulative principle.  Suffice it to say that I believe we formulate a theology of worship the way we formulate a theology of anything else (the atonement, just war theory, what have you):  we take everything the Bible has to say on the subject and bring it together systematically.</p>
<p>There are many things we regularly do in worship that are not expressly commanded in Scripture, such as a weekly collection and a weekly sermon.  Yes, the Bible gives us the example of Paul preaching on the Lord&#8217;s Day (in the book of Acts) and the Bible does command us to &#8220;preach the word,&#8221; but it does not command us to have a sermon every Sunday. </p>
<p>Instead, I believe we formulate a theology of worship based on biblical commands, biblical principles and biblical examples.  In the Old Testament, God gave his people the annual feasts (Passover, Feast of Tabernacles, Feast of Weeks, etc.).  In so doing, he established the principle that his people were to order their times and seasons not simply according to the changing of the seasons or the harvests, but according to his mighty acts in history, his acts of salvation on their behalf.</p>
<p>The Christian Year is simply an outgrowth of that principle:  the earliest Christians took Passover (in Greek, Pascha) and interpreted it in light of Christ&#8217;s Resurrection.  The day we call Easter is still called Pascha (Passover) by the Greeks, Pasqua by the Italians, etc.</p>
<p>I believe in celebrating the Church Year because our faith is not a timeless mythology:  it is firmly rooted in history.  Therefore, I believe it is helpful and wise to revisit the major events of Redemptive History at the same time each year for the same reason we celebrate loved ones&#8217; birthdays, our wedding anniversaries, and even Independence Day:  because something significant happened on those dates.</p>
<p>That is not to say that we know what day Jesus was born:  of course we don&#8217;t.  But the practice of celebrating his birth on the same day every year helps to cement the event in our minds as a real, historical event.</p>
<p>As I have mentioned in other posts (you can check the archives for earlier posts on the Christian Year), I have great respect for those who, because of their Puritan/Reformed convictions, do not celebrate the Church Year in any form or fashion:  no Christmas, no Easter, etc.   Just the Lord&#8217;s Day.  I don&#8217;t agree with them, but I respect them.</p>
<p>What I have no respect for, and little patience for, are those people who decide to celebrate the feasts of the Christian Calendar but who then take their cues as to how and when to celebrate from retailers, florists, and greeting card companies rather than from centuries of Christian witness and experience.  In other words, what&#8217;s the point, as a Christian, in celebrating Christmas if you&#8217;re just going to do what the retailers dictate?  It would seem better to me to omit Christmas altogether than to celebrate it in such a way that completely ignores the way the church has celebrated Christmas for centuries.</p>
<p>Finally (and I said I wasn&#8217;t going to get into this, didn&#8217;t I?  Hehehe), it is ironic to me that so many churches will eschew the Church Year (except for Christmas and Easter as stand-alone days, not in their logical contexts as part of the larger story), but they WILL observe civil holidays such as Independence Day, Labor Day, Memorial Day, etc., as well as florist-invented &#8220;holidays&#8221; such as Mother&#8217;s Day, Father&#8217;s Day, and Grandparent&#8217;s Day.  So, &#8220;man-made&#8221; days honoring Christ are out, but &#8220;man-made&#8221; days honoring America, baseball, hot dogs, or mom&#8217;s apple pie, are in?  Doesn&#8217;t make sense to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://knowtea.com/?p=625&#038;cpage=1#comment-3213</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 23:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knowtea.com/?p=625#comment-3213</guid>
		<description>Just a question...where in the Bible does it say to celebrate Christmas, Advent, or any other church added &quot;season&quot;? Great post...point well-taken, but Christians should remember that our lives should be about Him...not a season that we try to keep Him in, overlapping or not...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a question&#8230;where in the Bible does it say to celebrate Christmas, Advent, or any other church added &#8220;season&#8221;? Great post&#8230;point well-taken, but Christians should remember that our lives should be about Him&#8230;not a season that we try to keep Him in, overlapping or not&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: RevJATB</title>
		<link>http://knowtea.com/?p=625&#038;cpage=1#comment-3167</link>
		<dc:creator>RevJATB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:42:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knowtea.com/?p=625#comment-3167</guid>
		<description>I often &quot;cheat&quot; as well and use &quot;Lo How a Rose&quot; on the third Sunday of Advent, since we light a rose-colored candle on that day.  Morris is exactly right:  &quot;Joy to the World&quot;  IS an Advent hymn, not a Christmas one.  (The Trinity Hymnal actually puts it in the Advent section rather than the Christmas section.)  But I&#039;ve found it rather pointless to try to use it as an Advent hymn, since everyone associates it so strongly with Christmas.

You&#039;re right about the limited amount of time available to sing Christmas music (especially as contrasted with the 50 Days of Easter, when we are sometimes scrounging for more Easter hymns!).  In a larger church there are more opportunities because of Lessons &amp; Carols, Christmas Eve AND Christmas Day services, children&#039;s Christmas pageants, handbell choir concerts, etc., etc., etc.  In a small church such as ours (Ed&#039;s and mine), Sunday morning service is about all we have.  For that reason, people at our church will no doubt find me &quot;cheating,&quot; especially on the 21st (the last Sunday service we&#039;ll have before Christmas).

Ed, please send me that hymn.  I would also recommend to you &quot;The Advent of Our God&quot; to ST. THOMAS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I often &#8220;cheat&#8221; as well and use &#8220;Lo How a Rose&#8221; on the third Sunday of Advent, since we light a rose-colored candle on that day.  Morris is exactly right:  &#8220;Joy to the World&#8221;  IS an Advent hymn, not a Christmas one.  (The Trinity Hymnal actually puts it in the Advent section rather than the Christmas section.)  But I&#8217;ve found it rather pointless to try to use it as an Advent hymn, since everyone associates it so strongly with Christmas.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right about the limited amount of time available to sing Christmas music (especially as contrasted with the 50 Days of Easter, when we are sometimes scrounging for more Easter hymns!).  In a larger church there are more opportunities because of Lessons &amp; Carols, Christmas Eve AND Christmas Day services, children&#8217;s Christmas pageants, handbell choir concerts, etc., etc., etc.  In a small church such as ours (Ed&#8217;s and mine), Sunday morning service is about all we have.  For that reason, people at our church will no doubt find me &#8220;cheating,&#8221; especially on the 21st (the last Sunday service we&#8217;ll have before Christmas).</p>
<p>Ed, please send me that hymn.  I would also recommend to you &#8220;The Advent of Our God&#8221; to ST. THOMAS.</p>
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		<title>By: Mo</title>
		<link>http://knowtea.com/?p=625&#038;cpage=1#comment-3164</link>
		<dc:creator>Mo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knowtea.com/?p=625#comment-3164</guid>
		<description>Can da boy riff, or can da boy riff?

I appreciate the cogent explanations ... but some of us swim in a part of the pond in which such rigid adherence to the liturgical calendar isn&#039;t possible.  I DO select the hymns carefully so that we&#039;re not as explicit about Christ having come until deeper into the season.  &quot;Joy to the World&quot; is really more about the second advent rather than the first (or so it seems to me).

Great riff, man.  Ranted with gusto!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can da boy riff, or can da boy riff?</p>
<p>I appreciate the cogent explanations &#8230; but some of us swim in a part of the pond in which such rigid adherence to the liturgical calendar isn&#8217;t possible.  I DO select the hymns carefully so that we&#8217;re not as explicit about Christ having come until deeper into the season.  &#8220;Joy to the World&#8221; is really more about the second advent rather than the first (or so it seems to me).</p>
<p>Great riff, man.  Ranted with gusto!</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Eubanks</title>
		<link>http://knowtea.com/?p=625&#038;cpage=1#comment-3163</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Eubanks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knowtea.com/?p=625#comment-3163</guid>
		<description>Well, actually-- it &lt;b&gt;IS&lt;/b&gt; the &quot;holiday season&quot; since, a) the word &quot;holiday&quot; is an Englishification of &quot;Holy Day&quot; and the periods of Advent, Christmastide, and Epiphany are certainly Holy Days; and b) between Thanksgiving (which, as you acknowledge, IS worth noting in the church), the Advent season, Christmastide, the secular New Year, and Epiphany, it is simply inaccurate to refer to only one of these when we actually mean the whole epoch of late November thru early January.

But I agree with much of the rest. Although I DO listen to my &quot;Holiday&quot; playlist (yes, iTunes actually has a &quot;Holiday&quot; playlist at the Eubanks house) throughout-- it actually was synced onto various i-devices a week ago. I don&#039;t think it is out of accord with the spirit of anticipation.

As for hymnody, I&#039;ve been working to introduce more of the true Advent hymns since last year, and have found a couple of gems to introduce this year (do you know &quot;Come Thou Savior of Our Race&quot; to the tune HENDON? I can send you a PDF...). But again, I don&#039;t think it is wholly inappropriate to add some of the more anticipatorily-inclined carols before the actual day.

One dilemma of it is this: there is such a wealth of great hymnody that is specifically Christmastide-themed. It is nearly impossible to get our fill of it simply during the 12 days. So I start with the pure Advent hymns, continue them, and meanwhile gradually add in some Christmas carols as well. 

For example: Lo, How a Rose Ere Blooming on the second Sunday in Advent; Angels from the Realms of Glory and Break Forth O Beauteous Heav&#039;nly Light (and, yes, Joy to the World) on the third Sunday in Advent; etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, actually&#8211; it <b>IS</b> the &#8220;holiday season&#8221; since, a) the word &#8220;holiday&#8221; is an Englishification of &#8220;Holy Day&#8221; and the periods of Advent, Christmastide, and Epiphany are certainly Holy Days; and b) between Thanksgiving (which, as you acknowledge, IS worth noting in the church), the Advent season, Christmastide, the secular New Year, and Epiphany, it is simply inaccurate to refer to only one of these when we actually mean the whole epoch of late November thru early January.</p>
<p>But I agree with much of the rest. Although I DO listen to my &#8220;Holiday&#8221; playlist (yes, iTunes actually has a &#8220;Holiday&#8221; playlist at the Eubanks house) throughout&#8211; it actually was synced onto various i-devices a week ago. I don&#8217;t think it is out of accord with the spirit of anticipation.</p>
<p>As for hymnody, I&#8217;ve been working to introduce more of the true Advent hymns since last year, and have found a couple of gems to introduce this year (do you know &#8220;Come Thou Savior of Our Race&#8221; to the tune HENDON? I can send you a PDF&#8230;). But again, I don&#8217;t think it is wholly inappropriate to add some of the more anticipatorily-inclined carols before the actual day.</p>
<p>One dilemma of it is this: there is such a wealth of great hymnody that is specifically Christmastide-themed. It is nearly impossible to get our fill of it simply during the 12 days. So I start with the pure Advent hymns, continue them, and meanwhile gradually add in some Christmas carols as well. </p>
<p>For example: Lo, How a Rose Ere Blooming on the second Sunday in Advent; Angels from the Realms of Glory and Break Forth O Beauteous Heav&#8217;nly Light (and, yes, Joy to the World) on the third Sunday in Advent; etc.</p>
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